Saturday, 17 May 2008
Hi Richard,
I did come back to you to say I would summarise the situation this weekend, and that there was no feedback from the International group requesting any changes. Perhaps the email didn’t come through.
The general consensus is that we don’t need a rule change so long as a sensible minimum wind speed is applied before and during a race so that a 40 Kg sailor with a 5.5m sail does not make a mockery of a race.
Some heavyweights are of the opinion that if they have to buy a 5.5m sail to be competitive because races are held in 5-6 knot winds then they won’t participate.
So as I see it:
Existing rules are ok
5.5m are production equipment as they are a standard blokart part that has been available for the minimum period of time that enables those wanting to purchase one to do so
At the April BAI meeting it was proposed that “ that the 5.5m with the Ultra base, Ultra 2nd and a carbon 3rd mast is acceptable in the production class. The carbon sections from a 5.5m cannot be used with the 4m or 3m sails in the production class. The Ultra base may be used in the performance class for all sails.
For the worlds defining the wind limit and or what weight categories are allowed to use the 5m sail will be required.”
Could those with the new karts check that the Standard CRB that we use in Performance Class will fit the mast slot. Mine won’t and I have to use the Ultra CRB in the new kart. I can use the 2nd section of the standard CRB with the first Ultra. Perhaps this is just a tolerance issue with my kart. So I’d be illegal if I entered Production. That night be an issue for a new superheavyweight sailor.
Anyway, please keep the feedback coming as we’ll decide this at the next BAI meeting and I may have some more feedback from the International contingent. We look forward to your and Don’s idea.
The time I have spent with a 5m sail has tempted me to buy one just for fun sailing in lighter airs, but my personal rule for fun sailing is that it be 10 knots minimum, and as the fun stuff for me is really 20+ knots I might not get a lot of use from a 5m. But then I get cabin fever when the wind is light for several months and I might find the 5m just what I need. My “sail anytime” has philosophy (to take advantage of the weekday wind) has been wrecked by work pressures lately, so the 5m is still an option.
Regards
Grant
Hey Theo,
Couldn’t find the photo attached, but I sailed a legal 7m blokart sail at the ABC champs in 2005 at Bruce Pulman Park. I won of course, but then there was so little wind that I was the only sailor moving, and a flatulating cow on a blokart would probably have beaten me. (Whoops – that’s a long word). The photo is a closely guarded secret just in case I need a secret weapon if we start sailing races in 5 knots.
Ross Vickers also sailed about a year later with an asymmetrical spinnaker (oops, two big words in a row), but other being a bit of fun we didn’t think it would catch on. All this proves is that some of us get withdrawal symptoms when we cant sail – so hooray for the 5.5m! I’m keen to see how strong a wind I can compete with a 5.5 against a 3m on a twisty course not a drag race. Russell and I have conclusively proven a 2m is fastest in a big wind on a rag race, but the bigger sails accelerate faster out of the corners.
If half the fleet in a race has to scuff wheels to keep moving that isn’t a fair race. I personally wouldn’t attend an international event where racing took place in very light winds, but I would sail for fun at the event if the results didn’t count. As you say – it’s the being there that counts, but being fair counts too.
The alternative is that we bulk up everyone so they are the same weight as the heaviest sailor by wearing buckshot filled jackets (as the ability to position your weight is an advantage). Ha! Joking I hope!
Cheers
Grant
Hi
I don’t see why not, 50k is 5 laps, so divide it up as you want. You will all have to sign a disclaimer, not sure what we would do on the fees, probably just $10 because it is still only one entry (non-member portion goes to BAI insurance), I will run it past the committee...
If you pre-register on our website, put all the names in and make a note that it is same Kart
Catch you there
Cheers
Phil
Hi All,
My 2 cents.
There are two points which I would like to make.
These are new sails and the full potential of these sails has not been realised yet. For example, a middleweight is already running a 5.5m up to 15 knots of wind in America before changing to a 4m. This may seem wrong to you, but come the worlds he will most likely be using it and if he wins the class what are you going to say then! Everyone may need to get 5.5 meter sail.
Secondly the cost of being competitive even locally has potentially just risen $1200 - $1400 dollars which maybe fine for some of us out there but others are going to drop out of the sport due to the high cost. The BBC has already lost members to the increasing costs of competing and losing more members over 5.5m sails is not what I want. If you wanted to start blokart sailing competitively and brought a new kart you would be looking at a cost of $8000+ to set up. This is far to high in my opinion for a new sport that relies on the wind, which means you are not guaranteed to sail on any given weekend. Spare time is becoming more precious to all of us.
So a solution I can see to keep the sport of blokart strong in NZ clubs:
If you actually look at your club and say how many members from your club would go to the next world champs if they were held in Europe. Even the BBC with a strong travelling group of members may get 7 going in reality, so they can race at those events under the international equipment rules. I would suggest we redefine the performance equipment rules ideally for NZ within the NZBAI but at least at club level to excluded 5.5 meter sails and potential other performance equipment to make the competitive side of the sport a reasonable price to get into, keeping our clubs strong and everyone with a fair chance of winning at a reasonable cost at a local level and maybe even the nationals.
So from the BBC point of view the question to be discussed at the next committee meeting is a complete ban on 5.5’s or ban for all, other than supers and offer a financing deal to the supers to make sure all of our supers have a 5.5 meter sail.
Something to think about
Richard
__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 3106 (20080516) __________
The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
http://www.eset.com
Well Said Richard, Club protection is very important, even Nationally also, but when its us against the world then….bring out all the armoury.
2 cents!! Petrol companies must be very…..don’t know the word…. They are always putting in more their 2c worth.
Cheers,
Don
I’m off fishing!!
Light winds but maybe a NE this afternoon about 10 knts if we're lucky. Meet at BPP if thw wind arrives. We could always meet anyway and discuss ...... 5.5 sails? Just joking! Over to you
Russell
I have been quite up until this point on the 5.5m issue, watching intently on the dicussion.
Its actually quite ammusing watching two themes develop
Theme 1 - Allow the 5.5m sails as part of the kit as per the rules. (note these are the rules that "we" the blokarting community entrusted the IBRA to develop)
The rule is very clear as written in that it does allow them once they have been available for 3 months (which I believe was the start of Feb 08) .
The Auckland club took the sensible approach and since their post xmas season had started decided to postpone the introduction until their next season
Theme 2 - Ban them or if we are forced to have them can they be only for the super heavy weights. Interestingly the people that have suggested this so far have been the super heavies (whats the story with that, do they think they are superior so only they can use them!)
These people get even more interesting as they try to bring in all sorts of excuses in order to try to ban them.
Using Richards first analogy refering to Sean Fidler using a 5.5m up to 15knots.... "if he wins what will you all say then!" well the answer would surely be "good on him" he managed to develop the use of the sail better than any one else. And thats a bad thing?
Then they goe on to cost. At then end of the day the cost is not that bad compared to other sports even at $8000. Find another sport that can hit 60km/hr for under $8k. Besides this sport has gone on for a few years now (6 years ?) and this has been the only major change. We still see karts of 4 or 5 years winning, we still see sails of 4 years winning. We still see sailors who have bought 2nd hand karts winning races and we still see people spending not much and going out and having FUN. Surely $1500 is not too bad for the small percentage that actually want to be able to sail and race properly in under 12 knots
With this new sail it does virtually guarantee that we can sail every weekend, just like our (also wind dependent) friends on the water.
Subsidising 5.5m.. well that is something that could be looked at, but then again, if you subsidize it via membership fees, then the end user is paying anyway!
At the end of the day, I personally dont see the fun is just hooning around... Racing gives it the fun factor (for me any way). This sail allows us to race in lighter breeze. Other say they dont like to race in under 8 knots, as it doesnt bring skill into it.. well then why are the same people in front 80% of the time? I would be up for a rule like if the leader is scuffing it gets called off and sail in all winds. Think of it in the reverse of normal is it fair on them if they are good enough to sail the course and show that they really are the best. I say no bottom limit for a race (or maybe 4 knots), just sail and stop bitching when the people in front can sail, but you cant.
At the end of the day, they are legal for the worlds as grant pointed out. If a club was to ban them locally that fine. And Dons idea of bring out the armory for the worlds is fine too. But if the club did ban them, and we went to the worlds and got our butts kick cause we didnt know that the 5.5m was quicker in 12 to 15knots then we would look pretty dumb, considering that they were developed in our back yard with our input.
Well that was more than 2cents worth, but that TAX for you... looks like 5.5m opinions are going to hit $2 soon.
Ross
Please don't take offense to my rant... it was just that... a rant!
Attached poll: 5.5m Ban or not?
| Ban for all | |||
| 1 votes |
|
||
| Ban for all but superheavies | |||
| 1 votes |
|
||
| Allow for all. | |||
| 8 votes |
|
||
Total: 10 votes. Poll closed at 08:54 on Sunday, 1 June 2008.
Thanks Phil.
I am a member of the Palmy club and have filled in a family membership. Just need some steady wind to keep the girls interested. Great practice the other day with Ted at Massey University last weekend.
Full Sails
Gary
I have been watching this debate with interest. What happened to the principle of a Blokart that they were "one off design". Same thing happened in dingy racing as mods came into the act, if you could afford the changes you went with it, if not you were left behind. Simple solution is to sanction the use of 5.5's for anyone, BUT have seperate races. Now it becomes "weight for weight"; "sail for sail" and down to skipper ability. Tee Bee
Ross didn't mention that he has attached a poll. Please vote.
How about those with the skills to sail in 5 knots pass some of their secrets on so the rest of us can sail as well? Problem fixed.(Howls of "Yeah Right" from Hayden, Russell, etc) :-)
Rather than a wind limit perhaps a speed limit is a way to go? With an electronic timing system and a known length of the course its easy to calculate the average lap speed. The first 4 or competitors in a race have to be lapping at over 5km/hr. i.e faster than can be achieved by wheeling.... (This can be worked the other way as well. Having a maximum lap time for the top 4 competitors.)
In my last post I wasn't suggesting to limit the sail choice of any sailor. I just don't want to see the Super Heavies missing out because the light weights are sailing with a 5.5m and they can't get moving.
For the cost argument please consider the following. If you were buying your entire set up again with 2 sails – would you buy a 3 and 4 or 4 and 5.5? In which case the cost increase from 3 -> 5.5 is around $500. Already got a 3m and need a 5.5? -> the joys of being first in. I believe that most people should be able to get good use of the equipment with 2 sails. The super competitive would have a 3rd sail.
With BK Heaven Paul etc has figured out on light days the wind passes across in waves. In which case waiting 10 mins for the wind to be constant means starting the race with the wind dropping. Starting a race when the wind is starting to pick up is the way to go.
I think this topic deserves some good discussion on the issues. Keep it coming. :-)
Off to BPP now to practise light wind sailing.
Cheers
Nick ABC 37
"flatulating cow on a blokart would probably have beaten me." LOL. So much for a carbon neutral / global warming neutral sport... perhaps I should have baked beans for lunch.
